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federation square by DCM?

edited November 2008 in architecture
It is understood that DCM is about to work their magic on Federation Square. Even from afar afield as Queensland it seems disgraceful that the former Victorian GA's practice has wedged itself into someone else's architecture.
Surely this can't be true? How can an icon like this (like or loathe it) be allowed to be fiddled with by others not the original authors?
It was bad enough that the previous Labor government rogered it - but that the next admininstration continues it in colloboration with DCM is outrageous. I truly feel for LAB.
Perhaps even more worrying that the St Kilda pier reconstruction attracted a debate - but this seems yet to have registered even a wimper. The Vic GA and the RAIA pres/ceo should be showing some balls and reminding our fellow DCM architects of the value of ethics. Maybe while their at it they could ask DCM to kindly take back the turd they laid on George St here in Brisbane.
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Comments

  • edited November 2008
    what? your kidding. if thats true its disgusting. melbourne would really have gone to the dogs.

    @ info - DCM in brisbane is very very ordinary at ground level.
    Libeskind lollies inhabited by newsagents and coffee shops. tower is bland.
    new tower going up by DH (?) with gold sunshades and coloured props is promising. like a touch of Berlin Philharmonic maybe?!

    DCM house that won a national award looked like a cream biscuit wafer with spew custard filling.
    whats with all the faded imperialism going down in melbourne design?
  • sodsod
    edited 2:42AM
    why so precious about fed square? - one big lump of danny dung, not that i really mind it.

    HD - the wafer biscuit is supremely pompous - can't see why its so deserving, the market is saturated with model housing for the well off.
  • edited 2:42AM
    Would be admirable if the 'profession' exercised some preciousness around moral rights - particularly when it is an architect cutting the lunch of another architect. I think there is even an RAIA practice note referring to this kind of transgression (?) Might even be grounds for being struck of the state board?

    Harry Siedler cracked a nana when fairly incongruent pub signage was subsequently jammed into the ground plan of the Riverside Centre in Brisbane years ago without his nod.
    For Lizzy's opinion see: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/10/1068329493877.html
    It started initially as a moral rights issue - but I think it was bought out - because the sign is still there.
    $$$ talks.
  • edited 2:42AM
    Speaking of $$$ - the following links, although stinking of Labor fingerprints, paint a rosy financial picture of Fed Sq's finances:

    http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/newmedia.nsf/bc348d5912436a9cca256cfc0082d800/cea5eccf103070e0ca256f42000c52ac!OpenDocument

    http://archive.audit.vic.gov.au/reports_mp_psa/psa1007.html

    Then again, the Age's Paul Austin reckons it ain't so rosy:

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/reports-hid-states-8bn-turnaround-20081109-5kyf.html

    Am I being naive about moral rights?
  • edited November 2008
    i don't mind fed square in all its flawed glory sod. not what I'd do - probably why I dig it.
    young minds got a bit of a run in that office when they were doing it - you can see the crazy energy. for me thats good.

    the dead hand of DCM is the last thing it needs.
    infos got it right about the respect thing.

    too true about the fantasy housing sod. profession has its head up its arse.
  • sodsod
    edited 2:42AM
    Mmoral rights oblige the newly appointed architect to notify the original architect of the building for the sake of recording the project as far as i can tell. Does nothing to prevent a client/owner appointing new consultants.
    lab's become another commercial chop shop servicing the asain market - i find it hard to be outraged on their behalf. the choice of DCM is probably more the question.
  • edited November 2008
    could be bit harsh on LAB sod?
    (- the danny dung is good though - brown buildings! ha .)
    they get shat on by the loser labour govt./ loony national trust.
    anyone involved who opened their mouths got necked (Damien Bonice).
    then the vic institute didn't exactly back them up.
    hard not to respect them for getting through it and not dummy spitting.
    pretty obvious at the time the incoming govt. wanted them to conveniently resign.
    I can get mildly outraged on their behalf.

    its flawed. but not dreary.

    I want to see the shard built personally.

    I've always like visiting Fed Square in melb because its one place you could go and not have to be in melbourne architecture. Before that Phillip Johnson's foyer in DCM's building in Collins street was highly enjoyable.
  • sodsod
    edited 2:42AM
    HD, probably to harsh given wot they went thru. they did hang in there but did they have anything better to do?

    i always thought the columns made 101 a better building
  • edited November 2008
    101 gold wall was good too. is that all still there?

    - I can empathise with the problem of having nothing better to do! its one haircut at a time for me.

    in the end I kind of like LAB's carnival tents on a hill - thats how I look at Fed Square.
    not too up close.

    Even though it reeks of danny dung, and despite DL's role as a judge, I've heard it said that the late Neville Quarry played a major role in the decision. You can't underestimate the fit at the time between those novel aesthetics (novel then) and Kennett's idea for a multi media institution (prior to bringing the potter on board). A MM insitution was a very new idea anywhere. There were few precedents even globally. LAB's loose scheme was a corker in its stage 1 version (rarely published). Maybe they won because they offered a image for the idea of a multi media gallery rather than fell in the obvious trap of it being about Federation like the rest of the shortlist - particularly ARM.

    That would be my basis for dismissing any intervention by any melbourne architect in it - they all proved they couldn't do it in the first place when the competition was held. I won't even comment on DCM's scheme - I'm just glad Kennett side stepped what must have seemed almost an obligation to pick them.
  • edited 2:42AM
    I think moral rights is an excuse for lunch cutting
    Regardless of the Melbourne politic - the honourable thing for DCM would be to decline and support LAB to complete the works

    Back in the 90s I recall one of the DCM guys getting an individual award and declining to accept it becasue it didn't acknowledge the practice as an entity
    At the time I thought this to be incredibly honourable - and something I thought presented a noble position
    This position has nothing to do with architectural quality and all to do with integrity and character
    Loved them for it - it put two fingers straight up the RAIA wankers and struck a position

    Now - the excuse of moral rights seems shallow
    And DCM - if their involvement is true - purely dishonorable
  • edited November 2008
    I think DCM is involved in the new ACMI gallery in a secondary role, the design is by Ab Rogers, London. Is this the one you mean Info?
    VIC GOVT press release 2007
    Ab Rogers Interview 2008
    ARD
  • edited November 2008
    Call me a bitch but, DCM can 'do' Lieb. as well as LAB can.
  • edited November 2008
    @ mark. DCM do other architects BETTER not as good.
    there is DCM libeskind in brisbane.
    & DCM krier in carlton.
    DCM malevitch on freeway into melbourne.
    DCM graves in collins street.
    DCM rossi in collins street.
    DCM copy DL better than LAB for sure.
    Don Bates should have taken a page out of DCM's book and become a vampire.
  • edited 2:42AM
    yeah but can DCM do this?

    http://www.tronicstudio.com/media/mov/FINAL_LEIBOUTPUT_111408.mov

    funniest thing i've seen since, well, that building for the commonwealth games in manchester!
  • sodsod
    edited 2:42AM
    dl goes to architectural shiester town
    talk about flies crowding a turd
    if he wasn't naked before...
  • edited 2:42AM
    Sideburn, off topic, you've reminded me of the video by Tronic hawking this dull H de M tower in New York. Not cheap to make.
    http://www.tronicstudio.com/media/mov/56Leonard.mov
  • sodsod
    edited 2:42AM
    continuing off topic the H de M NY housing looks ok - i like the idea of a vertical habitat67 building.
  • edited November 2008
    i don't - I've seen the original.

    interesting link in an elvis goes to vegas kind of way.
    libeskind = liberace? -tinkerbell touch was gay.
    DCM could easy fire one of those chrome bananas out of their arses.
    give it some nice yellow props to fade in the arab sun.

    abu dabi needs a haircut......or wood marsh.
  • edited 2:42AM
    DCM/Ab(e)Rogers whatever ...
    The point still stands
    So there is a Victorian fascination/scheme with another out-of-towner
    To cover up the locally generated dishonourable action
    A few white feathers due this Christmas

    Growing up in Joh's times, I am more interested in the snouts in troughs
  • edited November 2008
    perhaps vic is going down the nsw road info.

    utzon was labelled something similar to "saarinen shit" by elements resentful of the OH commission.
    took 30-40 years to look past the fashionableness of the scheme in its time, its "high cost and unbuildability" during execution and its out of place-ness in the 70s giving way to puzzled admiration in the 80s.

    probably no use arguing for fed square in vic.

    honour probably ain't the DCM trip.
    working out how not to be irrelevant when the kulture and its tastes swing again on an economic hinge probably is. the best you can hope for is that they hang emselves.
  • sodsod
    edited 2:42AM
    i'm not sure the fed square / opera house / utzon comparison is that fair. utzon's exit was tragic for nsw but lab are still kicking in melb and i'm not sure they will make the same contribution to local design that uzton could have if he'd stayed.
    fed square is ok but it's not a yet to be acknowledged icon - but i'm form vic.
  • edited November 2008
    @ SOD - given it took well over a decade for Utzon's work to be recognised
    Can't see why the same couldn't occur here - time will tell
    The cynical trick for LAB would be to do no more work in the country and help build the myth

    Perhaps the real difference is political
    Utzon got shagged by an ambitious incoming Liberal party government (in 1965)
    And LAB got shagged by a dull Labor government
  • edited November 2008
    sure sod - its probably not fair. but I doubt anyone cares too much in harbour city. (ha ha ha)

    p. davidson grew up/educated in the stink of the utzon aftermath.
    - davidson for sure had that in his mind during the shard fiasco.

    I've met a lot of melbourne architects who seem almost gleeful that LAB were put through the wringer. There are stories of like glee in Sydney in the 60s. heard that many architects privately did think Utzon was incompetent (it was the young and harry seidler that rallied around him) - his office couldn't/wouldn't do working drawings. European architects didn't work that way then - Engineering firms did construction docos. Architects did DD - and thats what Utzon merrily did for years on end. cultural clash?

    For me - a visitor - Fed Square is great for being between post modern historicism and the tidal wave of euro neo-con sludge carrying along the odd bit of spanish eccentricity. Doesn't even strike me as particularly Libeskind like - too late 80s american for Danny L?

    If it is a fair comparison then fed square means melbourne is just a sinking province that lags a generation behind sydney. If so it can look forward to 2 or 3 decades of the rule of taste. won't be pretty looking at sydney.
  • edited November 2008
    Re: continuing off topic the H de M NY housing looks ok - i like the idea of a vertical habitat67 building.
    H de M NY housing is more of a SANAA isn't it (also NY) ?


    'cept with glass
  • edited 2:42AM
    oh and SANAA was a gallery not housing so probably ties it's architectural expression a little closer to the building's function
  • edited November 2008
    @ andrew.
    SANAA is good. might be because its japanese.
    the plan is weird (in the best way). no one in the west could come up with that.
    maybe only people who pack and unpack their lives rather than live in static convenience?

    I wonder if the japanese would see the difference between glass and concrete as major -
    not minor.

    H de M/moshe safdie are worlds apart from S+N?
    a nishezawa or even a nishezawa + sejima building in an australian city - now you'd be talking.
    free haircuts for a week if that happened.
  • sodsod
    edited 2:42AM
    when you bring the sanaa building into the frame the h de m project looks fugly, not that i think it's a bad design.
    the museum is obviously much more about the language / planning history of the city. the section is good - a leaf out of delerious new york and the new york athlectic club.
    its a relief to see a simple stacking of the programme - no tortured geometry, sloping floors or other tricked up shit.
    HD - sanna down under would have to be on a private commision - given goverments track record with foriegners would you want them wasting their time here.
  • edited November 2008
    yeah - its a well judged building sod.
    just enough shake in it - but still a tower.
    totters just nicely on not being one thing or the other.
    japanese - just too good.

    come to think of it S+N were screwed over right here next to the harbour about 10 years ago on MOMA?
    they won't be back.
  • edited 2:42AM
    Are you trying to tell me that Fed Square's more Eisenman than Libeskind?
  • edited November 2008
    - strange to be discussing the opera house - jorn utzon died last night.

    another story here.
    http://www.architectureanddesign.com.au/Article/Utzon-family-clashes/430796.aspx
    not happy with DCM sydney?


    @ collar - you talking to me?
    if so. I am.

    Lab's stage 1 scalar + dispersed composition covered the whole site evenly. square/buildings/etc.
    gave them the institution maybe? (museum of cinema/multi media/moving images)
    winner for that reason?
    lost a little of its abstractness/eveness as it went on to win comp and be executed.

    Terragni's grandson (or son?) was employed by/worked with LAB. there was a terragni exhibition that came out with them at the time. Eisenman and his obsession with terragni?! Lot of things melbourne looks right past in trying to see Libeskind in FS.

    Libeskind's stuff is always giant contemporary sculpture. abu dabi chrome bananas or lightning bolts ripped off from 70s american geological art.
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