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Planning Melbourne Style

edited September 2009 in architecture
http://www.theage.com.au/national/planning-objectors-may-be-forced-to-pay-fees-20090909-fhlk.html
Our State Government has moved so far to the Right...............

Comments

  • edited 3:33AM
    move to the right?

    a heavy handed lever pulling solution to a problem of substance?

    planning "profession" (council staff) staked their own power on subjective judgement and aggressively supported the construction of a nett unworkable planning code with unachievable compliance criteria. horse trading thru regs is the approval process. Net result objectors can equally build cases of "substance" against applications.

    new planning code is required?-
    won't happen until the idea of staying the way we are is 100% untenable and in your face.
    dumb mexico has been led to the trough once before and refused to drink.

    but if this is one more nail in bracksward/thwaites/brumby private school boy legacy thats got to be a good thing.
  • edited 3:33AM
    Predictable responses from everyone concerned in that article.
    Not clear whether they are wanting to cover costs, or are trying to dissuade poor people from objecting using alcopop & tobacco style wallet-focused disincentives.
    Use a market-type arrangement, he says? Like Vic market? Possibilties are endless.
    Red Spot specials: 2 objections for the price of one this week only.
    Allow 3 objections to any proposal and auction the rights to each off on ebay?
    Object this week at the special price of $900 and go in the draw for free rates for the year.


    In a few years the Planning Department might even turn a profit.
    Auckland is fast heading that way, though they haven't thought to sting the objector yet. AKL council charges by the hour during the planning application, and told me it should cost "somewhere around $2K" to process a small extension, but that they wouldn't know till they'd done it.. Then they outsourced the planning app to a private planner who I had to deal with directly. The future?
  • edited 3:33AM
    if you think about it planning on an extension or a single house is complete bs.
    kiwis are off their rockers. obviously going broke as a country and need taxation grabs.
    its a use issue to do with zoning and all that matters is it complies with BCA (setbacks) and energy ratings - where the teeth are anyway for the future.
    rest of its rubbish. should just be rolled into building permit.

    sack 90% of planning staff then and keep the smart ones for real issues.
  • edited 3:33AM
    Vic/AKL are f*cked.

    Nothing like pre-recession planning policies to relieve the realities of the recession we're in. Who'd build in this kind of climate?
  • edited 3:33AM
    ^ only the baby boomers............mate
    destroy it all before anyone else gets a chance
    there's templates everywhere............................
    your not immune in your warm fuzzy paradise, skywalker
    its like the plague, rats everywhere...............
  • edited 3:33AM
    (off topic)
    Anyone experiencing weirdness with their logins please let me know quickly.
  • edited September 2009
    ^
    when signing off. takes two goes.

    -----
    despite what harcourt accountant says - he's acknowledged planning is screwed by suspending it for fire rebuilds.

    re Auckland - the profession r stupid ? - accept paying a public servant by the hour. mo fos aren't in legit business - they are regulators. kiwis are interesting people with sometimes rad economic xperiments - but can be kooky on some shit. Can't see it happening here. ACCC would shut it down for Councils by demanding the privatisation of planning for a competitive fee environment.
    (that wouldn't be a bad idea).
  • edited September 2009
    the baby boomers are filtering the content.....
    repress the uprising.....
  • edited 3:33AM
    ^^HD The last upgrade has woken up the duplicate accounts from the old phpbb forum. Will try to untangle.
  • edited 3:33AM
    ^u mean there r two hairdressers?


    ------
    imagine grave yards in a few years cabbie.
    will bbs have enough left in the super funds for in character tomb stones laid out spaciously in leafy green surroundings - or will it be racking and stacking in high density precast slab blocks where they can be slotted and forgotten?
  • edited 3:33AM
    nah reckon they'll be preserved in their own monuments to themselves.
    tank it and fill it full of formaldehyde, suspend themselves for all to see
    as a reminder of the legacy they bestowed.
    the perfect end, for them, maybe.
    everyone else is left to clean up their s#@%e after their gone.
    great.....
     
  • edited September 2009
    might start future banking formaldehyde.

    the price of F, marble, roll on turf and concrete should boom for at least a decade.

    just before that toilet paper ass wipes and dribble bibs will be a supply bottleneck problem for au.

    don't invest in industries that make red lip stick, black hair dye, young peoples glasses, skull wax, country road fat suits or silver cars.

    ---think of all the holiday houses next to golf courses that will be around for sale in 15-20 years time cabbie. cheap cheap cheap. ok - they might be a bit cold and over glazed, but nothing a bit of bricking up can't fix. And you won't need planning permission to do it - probably be giving out incentives and special grants for legacy rectification.
  • edited 3:33AM
    ^^^ Seems to be just me with the double accounts, so am settling into the old one, complete with avatar circa 2003. Not sure about that logout error - I get it too now - may just need to stay for now. Upcoming Vanilla upgrade requires a completely different database structure so that will be fun.
    ---
    While planning in AKL has moved towards "market-type", building surveying has gone back to the councils. The private certifiers closed shop a few years ago after the leaky building scandal.
    Total cost of that AKL resource consemt (planning) app was $2200+GST, plus an $800 compulsory arborist report so we could remove some weeds. (Monty Pythonesque result of that is that if we comply with the conditions, will have to erect a hoarding of about 8m radius to protect a plane tree on the verge (nature strip in Oz parlance) during the works. This means that the site will not be accessible, and nor will the street).
  • edited September 2009
    b surveyors would have become uninsurable.

    same thing can happen to private planners?

    be hard to close down private surveying in aus. now. too established.
    green certification will the new govt. regulatory growth area in a world of carbon accounting.
    be solid fees involved. expect post occupancy real world compliance pressure tests etc?

    planning will disappear back into the world of zoning compliance where it belongs.
    planning schools/grads aren't smart enough and don't have science base to operate the levers in the new technical environment ahead. Krudd et al have no choice but to be merciless with the general population to gain credits necessary to operate the world's filthiest power generation industry.
    Aus has got a tough gig ahead and dumb arse planners with subjective taste coming out of their asses but 0 objective skills don't fit into it. Heritage industry will get a solid work over too.
  • edited 3:33AM
    Brisbane: private certifiers can pass DA's in 10 days as long as house design copies the queenslander elevation to the street. So last century is fine - but 2009 is out.
  • edited September 2009
    queenslanders (real or neo) don't look to me like they can meet carbon trading deficits.
    for sure that shits hit the rev limiter - matter of time before the motor blows.
  • edited 3:33AM
    Can't get that "market-type planning system" out of my head, so have to paste this in now that I've spotted it, from Urban Omnibus:
    "Imagine instead that we had a market-based approach to the use of land, in which people pay for what economists call the negative externalities of their own behavior. This would mean no more subsidized highways, no more mortgage deductions, and no more free rides at the gas pump. People would have to pay for the congestion, the pollution, and the health care problems that they themselves create. In such a scenario, the suburbs would likely shrink, and the exurbs would likely atrophy altogether." (Vishaan Chakrabarti)
    http://urbanomnibus.net/2009/07/a-country-of-cities/
     
  • edited September 2009
    ^
    has a certain sense to it.
    xcept we already have a market based approach. just not the one that author wants.
    blog is romantic with an exasperated moral tone. because utopia peddling?
    fairly unimaginative wilderness society outcome painted at the end.

    if it happens the suburbs will be abandoned/downgraded for market based reasons.
    - as inner city areas were at one time?
    planning issue will be orderly transition or pain for least advantaged economically?
    that will require subsidizing to be humane or am i wrong.

    shift in gasoline price last year gives an insight.

    --
    back to previous line of thought.
    user paying fees to planning departments to fiddle along at their own pace tweaking an application around the status quo is not market forces planning but subsidizing recreation time for 3rd rate clerks and creates closed markets for uncompetitive cartels. - who gets farmed this work? thinking example of mexican heritage advisor cartel. sure u would have had a run in with one of these opinion sans argument fcukers that answer to no one? ---except their council contract.

    difference between "privatised" kiwi DAs and private Aus building surveyors is u select your building surveyor? or can u pick your kiwi planner peter?
    that would be ok.
  • edited 3:33AM
    I really should have put the urban omnibus paste into the obecity thread.. oh well too late now.
    Yeah it all falls to bits at the end. Last paragraph had me free associating to Cliff Richard's sacharrine Summer Holiday... "going where the sun shines brightly..", and Radiant City (also shining brightly).
    ---
    I think our private planner was assigned as the council planners had too much on their plates at the time, and no we didn't have a choice - the planner was working for council, not the client.
    I get along with stat planners.. sometimes. But usually things will start to go wrong because they have an obstructionary heritage consultant barking orders from the back seat, or they have to enforce inappropriate bylaws designed for a distant suburb, or the job is (horrors) visible from the street.
    Perhaps heritage and character (ie aesthetics) should be seperated out from the rest, ie get your planning tick boxes ticked first, then get into the woolly stuff. Would speed up the planning component no end, and keep its costs down. Conflicts between heritage, clause 54, and ESD would then be exposed for discussion, rather than 'resolved' quietly according to pecking orders at council.
     
  • edited September 2009
    ^ sounds too sane.
    it will never get up!

    however - heritage has had its time.
    even the word, heritage architect - oxymoronic?
    planners/councils will unhitch them a bit like the greens will soon split between clean technologists working within a single ecology and preservationists who maintain the human/nature distinction (which is what that blog was?). windfarm fights and wild rivers on native land r the start.

    the human nature distinction = the past present distinction.
    more the question will be should stuff stay following an equation?
  • edited 3:33AM
    btw This gets through, Barkly Street St Kilda. Must have been the.. PVs?
  • edited 3:33AM
    Has changed a tad since the renders. I guess cantilevers and mitre joints cost money.
  • edited September 2009
    ^
    in character with the skip. shut and closed case at VCAT.




    ------------------------
    I wanna know why justine thinks any project should have to languish in the planning system not just fcuken coles new world order.

    unless -
    that new world order is latte sucking shaved heads v commode door driving paddock dwelling bogans - and labor party corporate donors + unionized labour (oxymoronic impossibility?) v bald shitbags with bogstandard projects for builders who just wanna buy a speedboat?
    (- the world according to Gregory Combay?)

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/mayor-slams-madden-for-woolies-takeover-20090918-fvf3.html
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